CURIKO - Filling the Spaces in Between

Community inclusion for people with developmental disabilities is and always will be a driving force for DDA. However, here in 2024, some new players and organizations are emerging to fill the spaces in between to help broaden horizons and cultivate relationships for people of all abilities. Say hello to CURIKO.

 

TRANSCRIPT

 

CURIKO – Filling the Spaces in Between

 

00:07

Welcome back to another episode of DDA's Encouraging Abilities podcast. I'm your host, DDA Communications Manager, Evan Kelly. Doing things a little bit differently today. We normally have one person either in the studio or on the phone, but today we have three guests in the studio, four, including myself. We only have two mics, so we're going to have to be agreeable when it comes to sharing. No fighting. So joining me today are Sarah Knowles, John A and Rodrigo Galvan. They are part of a new digital platform called Curiko.

 

00:37

They're here to talk to us about what Curiko is and why it's here. So all of you, firstly, thanks for making the effort to come out and, you know, make the trip, as it were, it's a lot harder than getting on a phone. So thank you for being here today. Thank you. Thanks so much for inviting us and also for accommodating, you know, allowing it to be three of us. That's kind of how we run with Curiko. We like to.

 

01:04

switch things up and kind of push the bounds a little bit. Exactly. Well, you know, for those of us, for those just listening, that's awfully cozy in our little pod booth here. So it's going to start to get warm, I think. So perhaps maybe just start by telling me a little bit about yourselves. How about you first, Sarah? Yeah. So I'm Sarah, Sarah Kay. And I'm a Cureco team member. I'm what we call a curator.

 

01:33

And all that really means is that I work with all sorts of individuals, organizations, and businesses to share their passions with others. Um, outside of work, I'm just someone who absolutely loves people and really am always happiest when I'm on top of a mountain. On top of a mountain. So you're hiking or like actual climbing? Hiking.

 

01:59

I do indoor bouldering, but haven't actually gone into the outdoor climbing scene yet. And John, how about yourself? Well, I'm not sure. I'm just, I'll just say that I'm getting three words. I'm a Catholic autistic gamer.

 

02:23

Catholic Autistic Gamer. That looks good. And what's your role with Kiriko, John? Just a member. And I guess I'm starting hosting. Oh, that sounds good. We'll get into that in a little bit. And how about yourself, Rodrigo? Hi. Well, yeah. My name is Rodrigo. I'm a Catholic.

 

02:42

What can I say about me? I love exploring. I'm a nomad at heart. I like food. I like cooking. I like trying new things. And I'm, I started as a member and I'm a host. It has been almost a year as a host in Curico.

 

02:59

And we were talking just earlier, you're from Mexico. Yes, I'm from Mexico. See, I said that properly. Yes, in Spanish, Mexico, right. And how long have you been in Canada? Five years, a little bit more than five years. So what brought you here?

 

03:16

I used to be a digital nomad. I travel around the world. I arrived here in Canada at the end of 2017 and I fall in love of the trees the trees that were near the the SkyTrain I was like this amazing. I want to stay here. So you you've given up Sun for rain is what you're saying Yes, but let's put it like this. I prefer cold. I don't like

 

03:42

warm weather, so I'm in the right place. You're an anomaly. You're an anomaly, I'll give you that. Okay, so Sarah, let's just talk about Curiko. What is it, what is it for, how does it work? Yeah, so...

 

03:57

We like to describe Curiko as a community building platform. So we have a website, Curiko.ca, and on this website, you can find tons and tons of different experiences. And these are all sorts of opportunities for anyone. Anyone can go on these, and these are kind of activities or events that can be one-on-one or group, in person or online. And they're just opportunities

 

04:27

to have different types of connection. More moments of connection to themselves, connections to other people, connection to spaces, to ideas, to a sense of, you know, culture. And so really that's what Curiko is, is we're a community building platform. We offer up opportunities for people with and without disabilities to come together and have experiences. So when was this started?

 

04:55

Yeah, so Curiko as Curiko kind of got started at the very end of 2020, very beginning of 2021 was kind of the time. However...

 

05:07

Um, Curiko kind of actually is just the most recent iteration of kind of a 10-year process. A 10-year process of research and development that actually came out of, um, a big kind of partnership between three really big disability-facing organizations, uh, Possibilities, Kinsite, and the Burnaby Association of Community Inclusion. We know them well. Yeah.

 

05:37

maybe something you know a little less well, which is a social design organization called InWiF Forward. So they came together with this social design group and started what is now a 10 plus year process of research and development. You call that InWiF Forward? InWiF Forward. In with? Yeah, InWiF Forward. InWiF Forward, okay. It's a social design organization. And Curacle is kind of one of the now most kind of

 

06:06

developed prototypes that came out of that organization. And so, your website mentioned some research that's been done before this. I'm trying to get a sense of the mission or the goals behind this that means you gotta do all this research. Can you talk to a little bit about that? Yeah, so what happened was these kind of three disability-serving organizations kind of came together.

 

06:36

And they really had this really, really brave kind of question they asked themselves. And that was, in the work that we are doing, are the people we supporting with intellectual disabilities actually living flourishing lives in community? And they answered, maybe no.

 

06:57

And based on that, they kind of reached out and partnered with this, at the time, very small but very exciting social innovation firm. And what they did together is they sought out to kind of therefore investigate.

 

07:16

What is it, how does social isolation for people with adults with intellectual disabilities look like? So based on that overreaching question, a group of people from all four organizations actually went and lived for several months back in 2014 in a social development complex in Burnaby. They lived there and they talked to people. They talked to them.

 

07:46

And not only did they get a sense of how their lives currently were, but they also asked what could they be. And some big things came out of that. Some big things was that social isolation wasn't just a matter of not having people, it was a matter of actually feeling connected to those people and also having a sense of a couple of things. So having a sense of purpose in their lives and also a sense of kind of novelty.

 

08:15

this kind of idea that maybe there wasn't really kind of flourishing lives. So lives that were connected to lots of moments, big and small, of different types of connection. You know, moments of awe and beauty and also purpose. Mm-hm.

 

08:34

And so that that was kind of missing. And so what started was initially something called Kudos. And that was creating opportunities for people with intellectual disabilities to go on experiences hosted by all sorts of individuals and businesses and organizations to just kind of share their passions with people. So these were one-on-one in-person experiences. And that happened for a really long time starting in 2015.

 

09:04

took on a life of its own, got funding. But eventually, with continued ongoing kind of research and listening and evaluation, it reached a point, kind of came to a head right before the pandemic, that, oh, maybe actually some of the existing power structures that led to maybe a sense of not flourishing lives are being replicated now. And so it led to changing again. And that's where kind of Kyrraco came in.

 

09:34

came out, whereas Kiriko now has kind of taken this idea of experiences and opened it up.

 

09:41

So now absolutely anyone can go on a Curiko experience. There is no eligibility requirements. And also anyone can host experiences. So people with and without disabilities both go on experiences and host experiences. And these can be group and one-on-one, in-person and virtual. So it's really open to that. So Rodrigo for instance, not only hosts experiences,

 

10:11

experiences and so does John. Yeah, I want to talk about that shortly as well because it's now did this is obviously an online platform which helps. I mean, let's let's be honest being on the digital world helps people get connected than then just, you know, prior to the year 2000. But did did COVID

 

10:34

sort of make you move faster in this direction. Because that got me that shut everything down shut up. I mean it made people who were lonely even lonelier presumably. But it also kind of required to shut down like kudos was functioning as an in person one on one and it had to stop.

 

10:50

couldn't do that anymore. So in the space of that couldn't happen, it allowed for the ability to try new things. And so in the immediate aftermath, kind of what happened very quickly was something called ComakeDo. Now ComakeDo was a virtual platform which was virtual group experiences. So it was the immediate stop gap. We can no longer do one-on-one experiences in person. How do we still create moments of connection?

 

11:20

And so, Ko-Me-Do happened and that kind of was a stepping stone and it also gave time so that, you know, new things can be tried and Kiriko could be created. But out of that also came an understanding that for some folks, virtual is actually always going to be better and for others it's not. And so, even though we're back to doing lots of in-person stuff, we're never going to abandon

 

11:50

as an option. It's an instant thing, right? I mean, you can set things up and not have to go anywhere, you know? Well, to join virtual group experiences, there's literally no barriers.

 

12:04

You don't actually even need an account. You go on, if you know an experience is about to happen, the times are on there, an hour before, there's a little button that says join waiting room. You click it, you join the Zoom waiting room. That button changes to join experience when it's about to start. You click it, Zoom opens. No need to even make an account. So it's really simple. You've made it really easy to get on board.

 

12:27

At least for, especially for those kind of virtual groups. Now, one-on-ones, even virtual one-on-ones, require an account and they require a bit more of a commitment and finding a time. And we also require you to have an account for in-person, just because we kind of need to know who's gonna be there. Because it really helps the host to kind of know who to expect. And is that free for the user? All Kiriko experiences are free. There are occasionally a few very small exceptions.

 

12:57

to help cover some costs, but for the most part, Curiko is free, free for everyone. So, what do you get your funding? How do you get this thing operating? Yeah, that is the question. That is the big question. So, we get our funding in a couple of different places. So, we have those partners I mentioned before. They are still big kind of funders, and they're still really, really crucial to the day to day, those three disability-facing organizations.

 

13:27

We also get funding directly from CLBC, so Community Living BC. We also get funding from several other organizations, including Frasier Health, but also the Israeli Foundation and some other organizations that kind of change their taste. Oh, interesting. Okay. Yeah. So anybody, I mean, you'd accept donations from anybody who wants to be a part of this kind of thing? Yeah.

 

13:50

Definitely, we would say our one thing is that we're a core part of kind of our values and what makes up is collaboration and kind of, yeah, is collaboration. And so we do kind of make sure that anyone we work with, including funders, shares our values and also that are kind of on board with our power sharing and with the idea of

 

14:20

and making decisions and so that's really important to us and part of also our relationship with our funders. That sounds good. Now let's talk about experiences. Rodrigo, why did you get involved with Curiko?

 

14:36

Okay, it's a little bit of a fun story. I used to be part of a program called Ignite from ISOBC. It helps immigrants develop their business. They offer a webinar of how to incorporate like values to your business. Like it catch my attention and that is where I met Sara and Stephanie. They did an amazing presentation, something like really different from what

 

15:06

to get involved, to know more. They invited me to a small hiking group that was going to go to SFU, if I recall correctly, Burnaby, and I start to realize that it is a place, a community that shares a lot of values that I have, especially enjoying those little moments, creating the opportunity where those moments of connection appear and those little moments.

 

15:36

like start evolving, I participate to more experiences and then I decided to host. It's like, okay, I enjoy little moments, let's maximize the opportunity to have more of those, I want to host. And I host an experience called Little Nomad Adventures. Little Nomad Adventures? Yeah, where we go around different neighborhoods to walk.

 

16:02

We encourage people to take photos and share a little story at the end of the experience. We just want to have a good time exploring, trying to find those little things, paying attention. And so where do you explore? Okay, so far, because it's been almost one year, here is the list. Mont Pleasant, Granville Island, downtown Vancouver, Burnaby, New West.

 

16:30

We just had our first field trip to Steamstone. That was fun. That's where I live. Oh, nice. Beautiful place. Beautiful place. Where else? Yeah, like we have different plants. I try to vary to create those experiences. There are a lot more amazing experiences that I want to create this year. And so those experiences become like vignettes within Curiko?

 

16:59

Yeah, so they become, if you go on Kiriko and you go to explore experience, or I believe it's discover experiences, thanks Rodrigo, yeah, discover experiences, and then you can kind of search by in person or online and different categories like taste, make, explore, connect, but they're all on there. And so they all have kind of information about who's hosting them and what to expect.

 

17:26

And because we always have accessibility top of mind, we also always really describe the environment so people can decide two things. One, is this the right experience for me? And two, what do I need in order to be able to fully participate in this experience? And so, yeah, and so people can find all those and anyone can choose to book and go on any experience. And things like that, though,

 

17:56

something he'd have to get there on his own. Do you have anything that helps facilitate that?

 

18:03

Not directly, but we're a community building platform. And so we're all about relationships. And so we like to develop relationships with people who start joining our community. We encourage people to do a welcome session first, which is always actually with a team member. And so let's say if someone did have trouble getting to a location, like we had someone recently, we had a big kind of launch party for a new, for a new set of experiences in a box

 

18:33

with it called an art journaling box. We had a community member who'd been joining in person for a long time, but they lived quite far away. They had never, in Surrey I believe, and they had never made their way from Surrey to our studio space in Burnaby before, but they really, really wanted to be there. So we worked with them and we actually helped arrange like a car to come get them and really facilitate.

 

19:00

we take it by a case by case basis. We're relationship builders. We work with people and we engage with people. And so, yes, we have certain policies and in general, we don't, you know, arrange transport. But that being said, reach out. We will work with people. Now that sounds good. So you're a bit flexible as what you're doing. Adaptable, always. And so, Rodrigo, you're kind of like a local travel blogger in a sense.

 

19:29

that's come the way this works for you at least? I mentioned it at the beginning I'm a nomad I love exploring I love finding those little places to enjoy to eat and all that and this city all these cities have a lot of that so. Now John how did you get involved in Kiriko? I was introduced to Kiriko from my CCRW job coach

 

19:57

She introduced me to one of Kiriko's coaches. And so what have you done so far with the organization? Well, you started, John, through our coaching program, right? So do you want to tell a little bit about what coaching looked like for you? Just like... Well, I just...

 

20:24

Just talking with the person. It's amazing. And have you gone on Rodrigo's nomadic experiences? Yeah. Where have you been? I think I joined all of them. All of them? Oh good. Yeah. So you were in my hood the other day. That's good to know. Now you went to Steveston. What did you like about Steveston? Ah, the place. Just in general. It's good. What was your highlight?

 

20:54

Well, it's probably a new building, but I saw the... It's weird, but I saw the different save on there. Oh, yes. We were talking about it. Yes, I love actually live across the street from there.

 

21:12

I could have waved. It's nice having a save-on right there for sure. That is a relatively new building. Well, I like that because on the window it said they do DNA testing. Yeah. DNA testing? That I haven't seen. It's tiny little things like that that we find in Little Nomad. We search for those tiny, strange little things, right? No, I live there and I can't say that I've seen anything about DNA testing at save-on. It's right in the window. I'll just get my banana. I just need my bananas and leave me alone.

 

21:42

And so you like gaming tell me a little bit about that what's your favorite video game? That's a hard one Our role-playing games Yeah, like Call of Duty or something like that. Are you into the shooting games? No Mario cool, that's cool. But what do you host with Karako John not quite gaming but kind of similar puzzles

 

22:12

Like actual puzzle making like little cardboard piece puzzle type thing you like puzzles Oh, so you you would have been happy in kovat. We were all building puzzles then weren't we? That's good. So what what size of puzzles do you like to build? Like a thousand pieces two thousand pieces 3d ones. Oh, yeah, those are popular now like the wood ones. We we can build like cars and airplanes

 

22:40

No, it's just foam. Oh, is it foam? Okay, nice. We've been working for, I don't know how many sessions, like six sessions so far in assembling this puzzle, because I've been joining his experiences. For me, it's amazing how like, sometimes we have a lot of progress, but other times it's just a little bit because it's challenging. But then again, you see like three, four, five people

 

23:10

focusing on the puzzle and enjoying and having that. And is that all in person or is that virtual as well? That's in person. Good good. I think when John was thinking about me be hosting I remember you telling me that you wanted you know you wanted to create a social environment where there was an activity.

 

23:35

And that works well? What other things would you like to host maybe? Well, I've been thinking about a video game one. So you could do that virtually online and then just play together, couldn't you? I'm old, sort of, because I like sitting beside each other playing. Oh, so you like it a bit old school that way? Yeah, I get that, I get that.

 

24:02

Now, I guess sort of back to you, Sarah, and Curico being, I mean, anybody's allowed to take part or can take part, regardless of ability, but the driving force has been developmental disabilities. Would that be a fair statement? Yeah. I would say that's really...

 

24:26

where it all kind of started with kudos. But I think a big thing is that in order to kind of address cognitive disabilities and kind of work within that community, it's really important to make sure that we open it up. And so I think a big part of what we're trying to address is not only kind of social isolation for people with cognitive disabilities, but is also looking more at the level

 

24:56

of society and culture, and how can we also play into a little bit of fostering the conditions for more kind of equal relationships, for starting to tackle the kind of inherent disability bias. And a big part of that is creating opportunities for more kind of genuine interactions between people who identify as having a disability and those who don't.

 

25:26

interactions where people are on equal footing, where you know sometimes John is the host and sometimes Rodrigo is the host and kind of creating those opportunities where there really are

 

25:42

kind of genuine relationships. And so yes, I think cognitive disabilities and disabilities is kind of a big part of the work Curiko does, but a part of addressing that is also thinking about society as a whole. And so thinking about fostering opportunities where everyone can work towards flourishing lives together. And where everybody feels included. Yeah. And so what's the response been from?

 

26:12

for lack of a better word, more typically developed people, people who don't have cognitive disabilities. Yeah.

 

26:19

Well, I think, I mean, I think recruitment and getting the word out is always sometimes challenging and we have more success in certain circles and at certain times than others. But also we often have these really kind of beautiful moments of recruitment. To go a little bit back actually to Rodrigo's story is what comes before Rodrigo being introduced to us and me and my teammate,

 

26:49

kind of doing this workshop for Ignite.

 

26:53

was another team member was in an Uber home from a completely different activation. And they said, oh, what were you doing this evening? And they said, oh, I'm working with this organization called Kiriko. And they said, oh, that's interesting, talked all about it. And they said, well, actually, I have connections to this program called Ignite. Could I pass your information down? And then for that, then they reached out to us and we're like, great. So it literally was an Uber ride. But I don't know.

 

27:23

I kind of also pass that to you, Rodrigo, as someone who doesn't identify as having a cognitive disability. What kind of, what's your take? What drew you in? For me, it was a little bit challenging because the way they teach you about that topic in Mexico is really constrained. And they build a lot of

 

27:51

a lot of concepts and it should be done like this. And at the beginning I was really nervous because I was facing something new, something different, right? But after realizing that there is this whole support network

 

28:09

Sara made sure that I felt comfortable and she attended the first experiences just to make sure to guide me to coach me and all that. I started to realize that a lot of those ideas that I I learned when I was a kid or a teenager, they are all dated. It's something that tries to put your attention

 

28:35

in an aspect that doesn't matter, right? Once you see beyond that, and once you realize that it's all about sharing that moment, that experience, being humans again, to be honest.

 

28:50

it all comes natural, at least for me. That's how I feel. That's why I love Curico and being part of this process. Well, that's really nice. I mean, can you speak a little bit about people with cognitive or developmental disabilities in Mexico? How are they treated differently down there? In your experience? I'm not trying to say the whole country under the bus.

 

29:11

While I was in university, I did my social services in a school that focused on helping kids with learning disabilities. And that is where I came in contact with two realities. If you have the money, you have access to the resources the kids have. But if you don't have the money, you are confined in this little bubble that a lot of people ignore.

 

29:41

Um...

 

29:42

I interacted with a public system school that they were fighting a lot for resources. I met a lot of really dedicated people that were trying to do their best with what they had. But you could see that, again, it's this little box where they put all these ideas and the kids and all that, and the society tends to ignore that. So it wasn't, from your point of view, it's not a very inclusive approach to people? No.

 

30:12

nowadays and maybe depending on the socio-cultural level there is more inclusion, but overall my perception is that we still have a lot of work to do. Yeah, I mean DDA has been doing its thing since 1952 and you know we were all about community living. We, DDA and its founders were instrumental in getting rid of institutions in BC. You know back in the day when, in the 40s or the 50s.

 

30:42

If a parent, if you had a Down syndrome child, the doctor would often say, just put them in an institution and forget them, forget they even exist. So that's been a 70 year struggle. And I feel like there's still more work to do today. And that, you know, when I hear about CURA code, it's like that's even taking that inclusion into another step and really driving it. Would you agree with that? Yeah, definitely. I think that...

 

31:09

CURCO kind of understands that there is a big importance and a big role in a lot of the programs and services Kind of in the lower mainland that really support people with disabilities But at the same time there needs to be more than just that there needs to be things that happen in the spaces in between Yes kind of programs and services and that's where we come in as kind of making it this kind of

 

31:39

outside of those spaces. Because Curiko is not a program. Curiko is not a service. It's kind of a, it's like a lifestyle. Yeah, well, it's a community. It's a community. So what is Curiko doing to do that outreach? Is there been a media push? Is there been anything to broaden the horizons of the organization? Yeah, I think we're constantly trying new things.

 

32:04

We often do, we often show up at farmers markets and community events. We were at, I mean that's how I met you, Heaven. We were at the Community Inclusion Festival. We do a lot of events like that, but also, you know, we go to the newest farmers market. We often do little pop-ups ourselves.

 

32:31

I think our big thing is we're constantly just kind of trying new things and seeing kind of what sticks. That's kind of our whole kind of mentality for everything is iterate, iterate, iterate. So keep trying. And also, we're really, really excited right now that we're also in a process of growth. So we currently kind of operate across the lower mainland, but we have just started.

 

33:00

the slow process of eventually expanding across British Columbia. I would imagine there's no limit to scaling this. I mean you could do it anywhere you want. Yeah, yeah, that's kind of the beauty in that although it's based in in-person experiences, because

 

33:18

it is a website that kind of grounds it, it does mean that you know we could have Kiriko wherever. We recently did a process of just internally our team.

 

33:30

doing a lot of internal visioning, and it started with a blue sky thinking. Absolutely anything could go. And we had hundreds of sticky notes all categorized around this. And there might have been one that said, Kyrgyz-Ko-Hawaii. Can I work there? Yeah, maybe not the most realistic or immediate of the goals that were up there on those sticky notes.

 

33:56

But yeah, who knows? Yeah, I mean, the sky is literally the limit. Now you talked about Comake Do and Kudos. What is Real Talk and Mirakai? Yeah, so those are other things that came out of this same research and development process. So the same four partners, the same three, Disability Facing and Aim With Forward. So Real Talk is a

 

34:23

separate kind of initiative that came out of this similar research process. And it is, so Real Talk is an initiative that connects adults with cognitive disabilities with opportunities to learn about and explore sexual health and sexual identity. So there's all sorts of different kind of offerings where adults with cognitive disabilities

 

34:53

can learn about sexual health, but also, you know, explore their own identity. Coming out of this idea that, you know, all adults have a sexual identity, whether they're sexually active or not, but often people with cognitive disabilities don't necessarily get always given the information they may need to go and kind of pursue that. And also given the space to explore things like sexual identity, queer identity.

 

35:23

And so in its essence, like beyond doing, you know, fun things with Rodrigo, I can imagine there being lots of like teachable moments, like things that, you know, if you wanted to make, show people how to bake a cake, like you could do inclusive experience like this. So you could have this whole repository of just fun stuff and learning things as well, right? Well, that's pretty much essentially what Curiko is.

 

35:52

And so all these things are we have all these sorts of different types of experiences. So we in fact, we have a whole category of advocacy experiences, you know, whether that is, you know, we have a group that meets once a month on Fridays to really focus on, you know, what is it that we care about with self advocacy? We've also done partnerships with disability who have poverty and participated in their,

 

36:22

you know, learn how to talk like a self advocate, like experiences in partnership with them. But then we also do all sorts of kind of, you know, make, taste, explore. So yes, we've done cookie making. We've done, we have one up a one-on-one virtual where you can learn how to make microwave mochi. So they really run the gambit between, we also have like, you know, one where you can explore or get kind of an initial exposure to

 

36:52

ASL. So it really like some of them are very much learning, learning based.

 

37:01

But kind of the difference between maybe a class that you would sign up for is that these don't have like really set outcomes where they're only a success if you learn how to make a, b, and c at the end. There's these expectations. It's more like the goal in of itself is to create opportunities for different types of connection. Will you often also learn x, y, and c

 

37:30

yes of course but it doesn't necessarily have the same measures of success if that makes sense. Yeah no it's an experience like an experience

 

37:42

beer making, but I'm not gonna go home and make beer necessarily. In fact, we have, coming up at the end of March, a cocktail making experience where you can come in person and learn how to make cocktails. We may have had a beer tasting in partnership with Canucks Autism Network that happened a couple weeks ago. That sounds good. Now, John, are you taking part in stuff like that? Are you sort of just sticking to some of the things that you like? I do see.

 

38:12

Some that I'm interested in, yeah. Yeah. So how long, again, have you been involved with Curiko?

 

38:20

How's it? I'm trying to remember when you first like, got involved with Tamsin. I know, I don't think it's quite as long as Rodrigo. I think maybe like eight months now? But you, you, I think that makes a great point. Like you get to really choose for yourself and I think that's a big part of Curiko. Like doing the things that excite you and you don't have to do everything. Yeah.

 

38:46

Just anything of interest. Would you do the beer tasting? Yeah. I would do the beer tasting. I'm not going to lie. Yeah. Well, and I know.

 

39:00

and stop me if you don't want me to share, but I know you kind of said at the beginning when you first started Kiriko that you were really, really shy to go and join in-person things and do social things, but that you wanted to. But now you kind of join all sorts of stuff. Well, you're here to talk about it. I think that's a huge step for a lot of people. Doing podcasts makes people nervous. So the fact that you're here doing that is like...

 

39:28

really really good if you ask me. Built comfortability. Yep. It's all about building your comfortability, absolutely. In terms of meeting people one-on-one, one of the questions that I had is how do you deal with any sort of safety concerns? I think, so safety is of course important.

 

39:50

And I think a couple things, especially with in-person experiences and one-on-one experiences, we do have kind of a couple safety things in place. The first one being that hosts do complete and submit a criminal record check, complete with a vulnerable sector check.

 

40:10

We kind of have that. We also do site visits. So we do that to check for kind of, you know, potential safety concerns. But primarily we do that so that we can best describe the environment so that that kind of is a big part of the safety. People knowing what to expect. People knowing this place is really, really loud. So if you're sound sensitive, you're really gonna wanna make sure you're bringing a good pair of headphones. So all of that. But that being said,

 

40:40

is something we think about and we're concerned about and is important. One of our core underlying values is that we believe that love, belonging, and purpose, kind of all the conditions to have a flourishing life, are as equally important as safety and shelter. And so therefore we do want

 

41:10

that it never becomes something that we try to mitigate risk so much to the extent that it prevents opportunities that will allow for novelty and even discomfort. Because another one of our big values is actually this idea that novelty, so just the sense of newness and strangeness, and also discomfort are really, really...

 

41:36

important and what we call yummy nutrients for learning and growth. And so we want to make sure that we think about safety but that we do not got so bogged down in this idea of needing to ensure safety that we're not actually allowing moments of strangeness and learning and even discomfort. And so that means it must be fairly easy to sort of, lack of a better term, police the content

 

42:06

Yeah, well, it's not like Snapchat. No. So no one puts up. You can't just go on and put up an experience. You can go on making a path count. Create a click, the create an experience button. It will guide you through. You can even it will direct you to book a time with a curator. You can skip that. But even if you go through the whole process, you create an experience. It doesn't get published.

 

42:32

It goes to the team and the team will reach out to you and a big part of our work is collaboration and co-creation. And so you will reach out to us and we'll work together. I mean, we've had...

 

42:46

not a lot, but we've had some people reach out and submit stuff in there. And we never just look at something and go, oh, well, never. We ask questions and we want to, you know, create an opportunity to kind of to kind of explore what that could look like. This person never reached back to us. They were probably trolling us. But a while ago, we did have someone submit an experience.

 

43:14

that they called the fetish experience.

 

43:18

and we reached out to them and we're like, we're like, we'd love to learn more. Some of the things you suggested, like we don't think would work, but we want to know kind of why you're interested in doing this. And maybe there's a way that we can promote exploring of that in a way where everyone would kind of feel, feel heard. Like maybe there's a way, maybe not with the images you, you, you, you posted, but there's a way. They never got back to us. So we were being trolled,

 

43:47

one of those moments where internally we're like, oh, what do we do with this? And we're like, no, we reach out. We try to have a conversation. Yeah, you know, you never know what happens until you take a look. I suppose. And who knows? Like, it could be something worth exploring. It could be a very good learning experience. Who knows?

 

44:04

compliment a little bit something that was interesting for me during the process of publishing an experience. I'm talking about an online experience is after you go through the process that Sara shared there is a tasting session where Sara can compliment if I miss something, but a Curico team member, a taster just scheduled a session with them and he or she will give you

 

44:34

feedback regarding your online experience on things that you can improve or to consider and on that and For me that is really helpful just to make sure that I'm aware or like I always like to Polish things up right sure and feedback is really important to achieve that and I was happy to hear that There are tasters ensuring that online experiences Meet that

 

45:04

It's not a requirement, but that idea of creating a wholesome space or a safe space. Yeah, it meets a certain threshold that you want to meet. Now, like with your pieces, like you meet up with people. How many people do you generally go out with when you do your nomadic thing? Um, between three and I think seven is the biggest so far. And so does then you do that in person, you go do your thing.

 

45:33

Are you recording any of that? Does that then become an on-line experience? Can you link the two kind of things or is it just an in-person thing? Okay, when the weather cooperates, it's in person outside, there is a meeting point, a starting point, and I will share an ending point if it's different.

 

45:51

At the beginning, we always ask, are you comfortable of me taking photos of you and sharing those photos on social media, on printing and all that, just to share them with Curico? If they say yes, awesome. If they say no, no photos. And the photos that we take during the experience, everyone is like, you can decide if you want to share them with other people or if they're with you.

 

46:16

That's it. If the weather doesn't cooperate, it's indoors in the studio and we have a couple of variations. Chocolate is from around the world. That's a fun one. Curious ingredients like things that we're not used to mixing like vanilla ice cream and soy sauce. Surprisingly delicious. Like I did not want to try it, but amazing. I, you know, for my own history, I spent many years working in the fine dining industry here in Vancouver.

 

46:46

We're in Richmond, but in Vancouver, and I worked with a chef who made roasted garlic ice cream. And it was divine. It was, sorry, total tangent here at the moment. No, no, no, but it's the core, right? Like Sarah was mentioning, creating an environment that is safe, but it also allows you to have that sense of adventure and risk. Like, yes, when we are tasting food, always ask about allergies, consider that.

 

47:16

that join the experiences have the option of, hey, I want to try these weird things that Rodrigo are presenting to me or no, I don't feel comfortable and no problem. Like we move on. So, yeah. No, sounds good. To return to kind of what you were asking with the content. So there was when Kiriko kind of first started, so as the iteration of Kiriko, we did have an experience type called video.

 

47:43

So it could be footage taken during experiences or it could be things filmed exclusively to live as videos. Now we had several of these, some of them professionally produced, some of them not.

 

48:00

but this is something we no longer have. We still have a YouTube channel. You can watch our old hip hop videos. They're quite fun. And some of the others. But this is something we kind of, again, kind of learned, reiterated, and moved away from.

 

48:16

because it takes a whole lot of time and a lot of resources to create video experiences. Yeah, that could be time and money as well. Yeah. It's not cheap to do. Yes, agreed. Very, very true. And the truth of the matter is that there's a huge market for that that's already being done. YouTube, you could search for anything and everything. And so yes, we put our own Curiko spin on things and kind of the accessibility.

 

48:46

focus.

 

48:48

but we were really finding that people weren't necessarily watching them, that there wasn't that same level of community being created in them. So we kind of decided to move away from that and focus more on actual live experiences. So focus on experiences that happened either live, one-on-one or as a group virtually, or in person, again, one-on-one or as a group. So all of our, you know, because we do do one-on-one experiences

 

49:18

group experiences. But the one thing you had mentioned way earlier, you asked about Meraki. And so Meraki... Again, another word I'm pronouncing incorrectly. Yeah, another word we've cut. I want to actually think is a real word, but in a different language. But again, kind of a word we've repurposed, so totally understandable.

 

49:41

But Meraki was boxed experiences and it happened back when it was Kudos and it wasn't directly connected to Kudos but kind of. It was a separate thing and the idea that they were complete experiences, everything you needed to...

 

49:57

have a moment of novelty to try something, to try an activity, to be exposed to something, but connected to a real person who carefully curated it. And so there would often be, there'd be all the supplies you needed to try something, but there'd also be, you know, links to videos, maybe audio clips, or instructions with both words and pictures, all this stuff. And the idea was for people that were more intimidated by going out to a physical location

 

50:27

a virtual, this would be a way to get started, to try. And also it could be something that people could bring home, they could do with other people in their lives, support workers, all sorts. So that is something that we have carried over to Kiriko. So although we do not have video experiences anymore, we have kept and grown on this idea of boxed experiences. So it's no longer called Meraki, it's just called Boxed Experiences. It's just a type of experience on the platform.

 

50:57

but we've played around with it and we've now also played around with this idea of different ways to engage with boxes. So we've got coaching boxes as well as boxes that are more tied to individual house. And now actually starting next week, we have started our very first ever box cohort.

 

51:19

So this is a box that people have signed up for. You could sign up to just get the box or you can sign up to join the cohort. And the idea is that the same group of people, it's 10 people this time, are going to join a virtual experience and it's only this 10 people. It's closed once it started. The same 10 people with the exact same box of supplies are meeting for six weeks.

 

51:45

and getting a chance to dig a little deeper, to get to know each other a little more, to get a sense of knowing who to expect, but also with the same materials, getting to really explore a topic.

 

51:59

an area over time and kind of build on the learning. So we're exploring with this. And so we're starting off, this one is art journaling, which is a virtual experience we have been doing for over a year now. It's actually co-hosted by myself and my mother who lives in Calgary, which is why it's virtual, because we co-host from a distance. But we've noticed that there's kind of a limit to how much kind of week on week we can build on it,

 

52:29

that there are always being different people, which we wanna maintain, it's important. It's what makes group experience, group virtual experiences so low barrier. But.

 

52:40

we want to play around with this idea, what if everyone for sure had the same supplies? Everyone had paint, everyone had Modge Podge, everyone had, you know, access to even stuff like bubble wrap to play around with. So everyone with the same supplies and we're the same group of people for a set period of time.

 

53:01

And so again, we're always kind of experimenting and playing around with formats. And so, yeah. Well, that sounds good. Because you've also said the website also mentions working with schools. Can you tell me, expand on that a little bit?

 

53:15

Yeah, so I don't actually know where you got that. So I'm sure, I believe you, I'm sure it's there somewhere. And I think our big thing is we definitely, we definitely, we say we're primarily for adults, but that being said, we definitely also are open to young people and even families. Occasionally we have some experiences which are 18 plus or 19 plus, like all of our, you know, lovely,

 

53:44

beer tasting and cocktail making mentioned earlier, but but we definitely have gone to a lot of like transition fairs and stuff like that where where we've kind of worked with and promoted with with younger people but also But also that's something that in the past both with kudos and now with Kiriko

 

54:14

high schoolers or university students are also really interested in volunteer opportunities that are not cookie cutter, are not you know here is a list of tasks to do, but where people get to design it themselves and volunteering with Curiko as a host is a really great way for young people to volunteer where they're sharing their own interests. You've been, sorry you've been with Curiko how long

 

54:44

Personally, not that long actually. I'm trying to do the math quickly. I think the easiest will just be to say in July it will be two years. Two years, that's long enough. I mean, have you seen it expand in that time? Are you watching this grow a lot? Yeah, definitely. I think it's really, really exciting to be a part of an organization that.

 

55:09

really is constantly reiterating and listening and learning. We've currently been in a process of kind of engaging a range of community members.

 

55:19

in evaluation where we seek to understand all of our members and where they're kind of at and where Kiriko comes into play. I've also been involved in scaling, which is incredibly exciting to see how Kiriko might look a little different when we go to, let's say, up north in Prince George. That's fantastic. Now, like, when it comes to the things that you do.

 

55:45

Rodrigo, would you might be doing things that cost money and if so where do the funds come from?

 

55:51

Okay. Actually, on my end, like we have done both. Usually, I focus like most of the times is exploring only transportation. I suggest bring some change for food in case you want to grab a snack while we walk. And for me, it's just being practical, right? Like we are on the move, we are exploring, the goal is to enjoy, right? We are not going to a fancy restaurant or no. But yeah, in the other cases, like for instance, chocolates from

 

56:21

curious ingredients. Curico sometimes.

 

56:26

helps me cover the cost of the chocolates for instance. Other times I bring the ingredients from like my fridge because I have them so no problem. For Steve's done that was our first field trip. Kuriko rented a car so they offer two options like you can meet us there no problem or you can meet us at the studio and you only pay I think it was ten dollars and join us on the

 

56:56

So I think that is good to try to create that balance because yes There are some things that you want to try that will cost a little bit of money but it's also important to keep it accessible right because For me and I maybe I'll be a little bit greedy saying this but I believe that for Curico It's also important to Open experiences for everybody Now like let me ask you a more of a personal question

 

57:26

as an immigrant, how does this system work in your life? Okay. I love it.

 

57:36

I was stuck on a loop since I worked from home. It was really easy. I wake up, emails, dishes, calls, emails, work. What is it you do for a job? OK, I created my own company. We help purpose-driven solopreneurs create and develop their own presence. So those people that are alone versus the world, they have this business idea, and they have no idea where to start. I help them with their own presence.

 

58:06

websites, automation, online payments, all that stuff. And I enjoy that. I like it, but that is work. And I learned that I also need to pay attention to the human part. The little nomad that lives in my heart. So Curico was great for that, because he gave me the option, like the excuse to go out. And not just be on the weekend watching movies and just going outside to the grocery.

 

58:36

and go back, it's dangerous. And it's like I ask you this because my wife's an immigrant and I sort of so I understand the the you know the loneliness that that can bring when you have moved to it you've decided to move to a place and you don't have your tribe with you you don't have your friends or family around so that can be really difficult and that's why I just sort of asked how Curiko works.

 

58:58

in that respect, you know, it's not just something for people with developmental disabilities, it's everybody who can need that outlet, really. Absolutely. They have some amazing values and that...

 

59:10

allow me to identify with them and create that sense of belonging. It's like, okay, I've tried going to bars, I've tried other type of events, it's not the place for me, for my personality, right? And I found Curriculum, and it was like, okay, this is amazing, like-minded people doing different things, creating, evolving, like, yeah, so it works great for me.

 

59:38

Yeah, I think I'd love to just, to kind of throw it, I guess, to you, Rodrigo and John, and just kind of, I mean, we kind of were just getting at it now, but I'd love to know maybe even in one or two words, John, like, what do you kind of think for you the impact of Kiriko has been, or why do you think you kind of still join?

 

01:00:07

Oh, I kind of wish this was around 20 years ago for me. Because it helped with my social aspect. It helps you get out of the house? Yeah.

 

01:00:26

I saw you nodding here when Rodrigo was talking about kind of feeling stuck and like a way to get out. Is that kind of something maybe you have felt a little bit too? Probably, yeah. I think that's something we all feel in our life from time to time. I know I have, yeah, absolutely.

 

01:00:52

Sorry. Go ahead, go ahead. I was just gonna say, how would you then kind of summarize for yourself, Rodrigo, the kind of impact? For me, it's reminding me what is to be a human again, to have that sense of connection, of putting feelings and emotion at the middle versus chasing the money and other things, right? So it has allowed me to.

 

01:01:19

Remember that those connections are really important, like meaningful connections. That's pretty deep. Yeah. That's a pretty good impact statement. I mean, and this is why I love the work I do, because as much as it is my work.

 

01:01:42

It is also something that I too equally find I get so much out of, just like you two have mentioned, where I get this sense of connection and community and genuinely making relationships with people in the course of my work, which is not something you always get in every work you do. You know, does that mean that sometimes I get text messages at weird hours? Of course, but it also

 

01:02:12

have friendships and people I care about and it really is two-way relationships. I didn't ask you this in the beginning about when I said ask about yourself but is that part of your background and your education in this kind of stuff?

 

01:02:27

Yeah, I think everyone who works with Curiko, if you ask the question of background, you will get a different answer, which I love. But for me personally, I come from the social sciences. So I have a master's degree in socio-cultural anthropology. And then outside of that, really kind of focused on kind of ethnography, but from a bit of an academic lens.

 

01:02:57

guides of Canada at first, kind of with their advocacy department and also with their research department and then a couple other small things and got led to then doing community engagement with the Canmore Museum and various things and it kind of, I always kept returning to how do we actually take research and working with people and kind of connect them more.

 

01:03:25

So the research and the engagement, where it seems very connected and where research is also kind of connected.

 

01:03:32

to forward thinking, to doing something, and not feeling so extractive. And so, kind of finding where I am now, I'm finding this kind of my background in doing a lot of kind of community, engagement and community focused work, but also a background in social science research, for me has kind of been a beautiful marriage of things. So you're kind of where you should be? At this point you're gonna stick around? I mean, yeah, it sounds cliche, but yes. That's funny.

 

01:04:01

I think we're pushing over an hour now. This is probably my longest podcast. And I appreciate it again, appreciate the effort and not coming out and we're talking for 15 minutes now. Hey, look at the time. Awesome, yes. And a huge thank you to you Evan again for inviting us.

 

01:04:20

And for instead of it just being kind of one person from Curiko kind of allowing a group of us to come and talk. Well, thank you. And I think this actually kind of worked and I promised to have some new gear next time. We should do this again. Once this expands again. I mean, I think there's 19 people working for Curiko now. So not employed by Curiko. So we include on our website, on our kind of team page, we also include some people.

 

01:04:47

who do more kind of a leadership role in the volunteering. So like moderators and stuff. So we do have a mixture of people who work full-time, part-time, and we also have people who work on more of a contract basis like our tasters. So very, very kind of casual.

 

01:05:07

but we also have a lot of volunteers that play very crucial parts. So I don't know, it's kind of hard to pinpoint our team in terms of numbers. How many people actually are involved online? How many clients, I guess, as you would call them? Yeah.

 

01:05:25

we call them community members and that is a very constantly changing number because people engage again different times different amounts but we do have we do have hundreds of people with accounts okay like I think last time I checked I mean this is not the most accurate number but like a thousand ish okay but those are accounts so different levels of use well we'll help you boost

 

01:05:55

Yeah. Okay, well you've been listening to DDA's Encouraging Abilities podcast. We've been chatting with Sarah Knowles, John A., Rodrigo Galvan, all from Currico. Currico is an online platform which, I said it wrong again, didn't I? Currico. Yeah, it's Currico. I kind of like how you say it. I'm going to keep that in. Currico, it's an online platform which can also mean real world interaction to help connect people through experiences.

 

01:06:25

In particular, people with disability in the disability community who might not, who might find it difficult rather to cultivate a community of their own. So all you can find, all you need to know at CURICO, that's C-U-R-I-K-O dot C-A. Thanks again for you all for being here. Yes, thank you for having us. Thank you. I am your host, DDA Communications Manager, Evan Kelly. See you next time.